In my earlier years as a Psychologist, I had extensive experience with psychological testing, much more so than the typical psychologist`s practice. I was fortunate to have a world renowned teacher, Dr. Zygmunt Piotrowski. He was an expert on the Rorschach test and always taught that one could not consider themself fully competent until they could do "blind" Rorschach analysis; that is, analyze the data with no information about the subject other than sex and age.
Over the course of a few years, I supervised the work of many interns and became comfortable in assisting their Rorschach analyses without knowledge of the patient. I can still remember my excitement being invited for the first time to perform a blind analysis for Doctoral students at a major university.
All of this discussion is a prelude to the most important point that I have gleaned from these experiences. Men and Women are different! Boy, I put in a lot of work to understand something that most of my readers know by their lived experience.
More formally, Piotrowski put primary emphasis on the "Experience Balance", that is, the relationship between an individual`s tendencies to experience life, to define themselves, through introversive or extratensive propensities. In other words, humans try to make sense of the world in some combination of internal thought and by the cues that the world offers them about themselves.
In my experience, men and women differ significantly on the experience balance, although with a huge overlap. The key word here is tendency.
Men tend to order their world by internal dialogue; women tend to evaluate themselves by their relationship to others and to the world around them. It`s no wonder that the sexes often have such difficulty in communication over important agendas!
Men tend to scoff at the idea of intuition, women tend to get frustrated at their mates inability to verbally express their feelings. For men, logic prevails, even if illogical; for women verbal expression is a natural extension of their womenness.
I must admit, as a male, it took me half of my life to value intuition as highly as logic.
V
Here is a poem of mine that addresses one side of the issue!
19 comments:
I have found this to be why I prefer mens company...they do not speak unless it is important. Their inner workings
or as you put it "Men tend to order their world by internal dialogue" might overflow when they find someone they trust as a sounding board...but ultimately a man is going to do what he is driven to do, by his very own psyche. A woman on the other hand is the sum of everything that she is trying to embrace in her outer world. cMp
I'm not sure we can change who we are but maybe deal with life better using certain practices. I believe the key is finding a balance between both logic and intuition. I'm not sure how that is achieved. I have found men fight tuition/feeling extremely bad.
It's funny you wrote about this because I just dealt with a situation with a man friend in a more emotional manner.
His advice to me:
Process and logic need rule your actions- less emotion- sad but that is the way the world is.
Would you agree? Is that the way of the world? Do I exchange my intuition/feeling for process and logic? Or is using intuition equally as important as using logic? Do I use them both after finding a balance?
Viv,
His advice to me:
Process and logic need rule your actions- less emotion- sad but that is the way the world is.
No, I don`t agree. Intuition & Logic have equal value, in my opinion.
V
The Rorschach Test has always been one of my favorites. Interesting stuff!
Most interesting. Rache xx
Yes, and added to this is the very real fact that male and female have less to do with "gender" than with the inner workings of the brain. So we aren't talking about men vs women, we are talking about two ways of thought; men and women have both faculties. I had an AHA moment about this while reading one of Robert Johnson's books. His books "He" and "She" are wonderful. Vince, I, too, had a hard time accepting the importance of intuition. This was hard for me because this is mainly how I operate in the world. So I spent many years devaluing myself. This was especially hard in an academic environment. I still find myself on the defensive about it, but I'm learning more every day to value what I am, my way of knowing. Thanks so much for sharing these ideas with us.
(((((Vince-Theresa)))))
I'm glad you emphasized the word "tendencies," because this generalizaton doesn't fit me well at all. My whole life is my nonstop internal monologue; I'm a little sorry to say that my personal relationships are secondary to this, particular with respect to my self-image. And while emotion and (I suppose) intuition inform my thinking, I think I tend to fall more on the logic side of the fence. Does that make me a guy? ;) - Karen
What interesting experiences you've had. The Rorschach and many other projective tests were being phased out when I received my Master's level training.
Judi
p.s. - I love Carmina Burana; well, I love Orff.
We just talked about this in class this last semester. Kimberly asserted that females tended to be more emotional and males tended to be more intellectual, however their similarities were more significant than differences in that each individual needed to surpass developmental challenges, because gain or loss would affect the individual's further development (Cizik, 2005). Tom made an argument that males developmentally separated from parents according to their right to regenerate self (identity) while women developed according to their responsibility (identity) of fostering relationships, which could be culture specific and era-orientated, or held to some other future-related parameter (Mazzarella, 2005).
Salvatore appeared to agree with Tom in that men seek an optimal separation from "maternal" attachment by developing their identity prior to intimacy and generativity, where women continue their attachment and dependency by fusing or maintaining their identity through intimate relationship with others (Cerniglia, 2005). Though it would seem cyclically, females often become the male's substitute mother through her caring and nurturing others rather than herself and perpetuates the male never truly gaining a full sense of independence, unless he were to remain celibate.
Salvatore went on to say there were no identity differences between genders, although it appeared females had a weaker sense of self-esteem [due to her high level of other-esteem], which could, however, be neutralized by the female accepting her right to self-definition, healthful competence and mastery regarding individuation, self-agency, and autonomy, rather than accepting the self-defined burden of responsibility over others [who may or may not show appreciation] (Salvatore, 2005).It wouldseem the male is more apt to say, "I am good because I am me (male)," where the female is more apt to say, "I am good because I am an extension of your goodness (borrowing male penis/power)
Vince...
This is very good food for me tonight. I am thinking, a trend I have notice in J-land at least, is that many of the woman claim to get along better with men and seem to be better verbalizers.
Personally, I have had few female friends and almost always get along best with men or with less emotional women. I hate the drama of being female. I depise the passion of it, for it strikes me as illogical.
On the other hand my closest friends are usually either doctors or pastors.
Great painting and great entry V! Ditto to most of the posts here.
Decidedly independent without the need for validation from a mate, and loving all the colores this world has to offer...
Hugs,
T
Learned something new about you today V.
thanks for sharing this and ... is that a photo of
that I see in your about me section? Thanks for
sharing that too.
It's a little ironic reading the words that you've
written here, just after posting this -> http://journals.aol.com/coy1234787/BetweenYouAndI/entries/1792
Have a great weekend my friend.
*** Coy ***
{{{{{Vince}}}}}
I really paid attention since I'm embarking on a new relationship with Mark. Thanks for sharing your insight! Have a wonderful weekend!
Vivian
Tendency really is the key word here. I often think of intuition as high speed logic, because when I break it down later (analyisis of my actions and choices seems to be a compulsion with me), I see where I had observed things that I wasn't consciously aware of at the time of intuition expressing itself. This ties back in several ways to women defining themselves in terms of their relationship to the world around them. When you're focused on that relationship, certain things you do take for granted and your notice of them goes to the subconcious or unconscious level. When your intuition is forming, that unrecognized information still goes into the thought process. Intuition often feels like a flash of insight, but it is a process, and we just don't recognize all the steps we've taken.
sistercdr,
That`s a wonderfully insightful comment. I keep workin` on intuition. In my poetry, I just sit, start writing a few words. I generally have no idea what Im goin` to write!
V
I rely heavily on intuition and it rarely fails me. The only thing that really fails me is when I see that 'red flag' waving and choose to ignore it; I've paid dearly for making those kinds of choices.
Nice entry and I loved the poem:)
Dianna
Love the drawing. It looks like a Degas, one that I haven't seen.
Wouldn't you say men and women are different in a complementary way?
:-) ---Robbie
Great entry! Heck if Psychologists didn't use such big words all the time I wouldn't mind reading more often. ; )
Such a goober here ... anyway, GREAT journal. I can't believe I had never seen it before.
Hugs
Brandi
This is a very informative and knowledgeable entry! Let me know if your old psychologist leanings need a guinea pig for further study! ;-) I must tell you that I once loved a man with a PhD in Psychology who had absolutely no practical understanding of clinical depression! ;-) Sassy
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